Philosophy, Politics, Society
Can addin-ul Islam (in the proper context as described in the Quran by the Messenger SAW) be practised today?
It is impossible. There are too many tenets of faith that can no longer be practised.
AGAINST
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RMF Shahnan : I stress again, according to the Al-Quran with dalil hadith Rasulullah SAW. Not the 5 basic tenets of Islam.
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Before we begin, I'd like to start and later hopefully end on this hadith. Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet said, "Facilitate things to people (concerning religious matters), and do not make it (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : betul2 kurang ajar saya nie...Wa'alaikum salam saudara Azham. terima kasih atas kesudian berpidato/berdebat isu ini. Yes I confirm that it (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : None taken my friend. Faham, terkadang itu terlepas bicara.. dan saya pun tidak menganggap saudara kurang ajar. =) Anyway, I just happene (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I agree...hence the slight change...but it still quite close to impossibility. I really do look forward to your thoughts on this matter. Tha (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Addin ul Islam does not ask us to divide ourselves in to 4 mainstreams schools of thought. Yet today we find many divisions amongst fellow Muslimin. I will cut and paste again soon the dalil hadit (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Yes, I agree that gambling and consumption of liquor is outright forbidden. Under any circumstances, yet for many other principles there are (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Let us revise what you have said earlier, shall we? You said: "Addin ul Islam does not ask us to divide ourselves in to 4 mainstreams sch (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : At no point did I ever say any of the Mazhabs condemned each other. I only said that the differences between the Mazhabs create a disunity, (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Now onto more advanced issues. I bring to bear slavery, which is an integral part of Islamic societal systems but is now outlawed by western civilisation. Slavery is an integral part of the Islamic ec (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Yes it is integral. As I've said before, slavery in Islam isn't the same as slavery by western definitions. In Islam, it is a life of se (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : My answer is based on the latest thread of your argument on slavery
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : where exactly?
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : My learned friend Azham. While for the most part there are no differences or criticism between the 4 mazhabs, there are minute differences, and I bring to mind that these differences already show that (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Kindly refer to Surah Al-Nahl, verse 43: In Malay: Dan tidaklah Kami mengutus Rasul-rasul sebelummu (wahai Muhammad), melainkan dari kalang (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : First of all, this verse is a general reminder verse and not a guideline verse. 43. And before thee also the apostles We sent were but men (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Volume 3, Book 46, Number 694 : Narrated by Abu Dhar I asked the Prophet, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and to fight for His Cause." I then asked, "What is the best kind (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : My answer is based on the latest thread of your argument on slavery
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Sorry but I've gone up and down this debate and have yet to find your response on the slavery issue. can you clarify or redo as a new thread (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : The dangers of deviating from the proper path has been reminded to us, in general broad terms, in Surah An-Nur Verse 34. 34. We have already sent down to you verses making things clear, an illustrati (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Kindly understand that the edicts, made by the 4 mazhabs agree on the principle and guidelines set by Quran and Hadith. The matter that diff (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Which is exactly my point. It is imperative for a Muslimin to understand why the Imam gave so and so edict. Yet today, we have people like (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Surah Al-Baqarah verse 177 177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : That is why we need to study the Quran and the Hadith, for here and hereafter. However, to say it is impossible or most difficult, it is mis (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : To practice every facet of Islam, beyond the 5 pillars of faith. Addin ul Islam is comprehensive, it is not just about rules and regulations (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Surah Al-Imran, verses 103-105 103. And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Yes, it is important to unite, but it does not mean the 4 mazhabs divide the muslim. I have said earlier that the 4 mazhab agree on principa (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : It is not about any Imam/mazhab that condemns each other. But a disunity, the examples of which are many and listed below. Disunity is di (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Again I quote the Al-Quran, Surah An-Nisaa, verse 59 59. O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : What you are saying here are very much dangerous. You are as if accusing the mazhabs do not refer to Quran and Hadith at all when providing (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : At no point did I say that the Mazhabs do not refer to Al-Quran and hadith. Please read and understand what I said. I said the Mazhabs ha (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I apologise if I seem to digress slightly, but I must also highlight that even in their day, each Mazhab differed in opinion from the earlier mazhab. If I recall correctly, Hambali differs from Syafii (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : The differences between them are not in principal of matters. The edicts made are done after thorough reference and study on Quran, Hadith a (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : The fact that we are divided to 4 mainstream Mazhabs is proof enough. That is disunity. If you speak with the infidels, the kafir, about rel (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Since there are those hung up on the issue of slavery, let me make it clear. Islam allows and has strict guidelines about slavery. It is a responsibilty, and does not allow mistreatment or abuse. It c (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : My answer is based on the latest thread of your argument on slavery
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : still looking bro
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Too many who claim to be of the Islamic faith are ignorant of what the Al-Quran teaches and worse simply do not know or cannot comprehend Sunnah. Anyone can read the words in the Al-Quran but not many (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Who gave credentials to mazhab higher than Quran and Hadith? Are you implicating the 4 mazhab said their say are higher than Quran and Hadit (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I am not denigrating the 4 mazhabs, only that we should not be obsessed or follow blindly. Please read and understand Hadith 28 which I (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Dear Shahnan, Firstly, I am sorry for not being able to respond earlier, as I was occupied. Secondly, it took some time for me to digest your arguments in reply, after my last response. After all, (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Please do not feel pressured into responding my learned friend Azham. I understand we all have other responsibilities and obligations to mee (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Indeed, we have to discuss this matter with extra caution, as we, ourselves may jeopardize our aqidah by our own words. Nauzubillah... Th (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I agree wholeheartedly. It is all too easy to make a mistake and find ourselves perverting something sacred. Again I apologise for the bo (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Here's an easy one. After reading and digesting my points, looking at the higher, more advanced requirements for a strict devout Muslimin, the inherent intertwining of various facets of faith, economi (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Yes, many are lacking in knowledge, but this does not mean we can do our own interpretations without proper guidance. As I said before, get (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I note you mentioned teacher, when I have said that I studied and still occasionally do under a few teachers. In my short lifetime, I have h (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : In the world we live in today, where there exists those arrogant enough to abuse the name of Islam, teaching deviant misinterpretations to pervert and deviate the ummah, all for political gain, can we (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : That is why we need to get a proper teacher or ustaz to guide us, not simply do our own interpretation.
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : That is true. But do we follow just one teacher (whose understanding may be myopic) or do we take the opinion of many teachers, just as a Ha (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Capitalism and liberalism are concepts designed to thwart Islam. It seems logical. It seems to be backed by scientific knowledge, yet these very systems are anti-Islamic. When one embraces capitali (...)
 
2 years, 5 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Since there are those who are too hung up on the issue of slavery and does not seem to bother with the other portents and facets of Islam. Volume 1, Book 3, Number 97 : Narrated by Abu Burda's fathe (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : I have asked before that are you willing to be a slave to others, and yet, you have not reply. Instead, you tried to give the above to prove (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : One's willingness to submit to another human has been removed from our society, esp over the last century. This has been my point from the b (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Volume 1, Book 2, Number 49 : Narrated by An-Nu'man bin Bashir I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Both legal and illegal things are evident but in between them there are doubtful (suspicious) things (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Tell me, where to look for these guidance, for the grey areas that not stated clearly in Quran and Hadith? =)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I can then ask you, where are the guidelines concerning the gray that is given out by the Mazhabs? It is a question of discretion, of pra (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : I have responded to you where and when I can. Going thru you flooded arguments as if showing you DO NOT accept any of the Mazhabs, and only refer to Quran and Hadith by your own interpretation. (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I am still in a learning process, understanding the basics within the Al-Quran and Sunnah. A process that has taken over 20 years of my life (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : On the authority of Abu Najeeh al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) gave us a sermon by which our hearts (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : I 've read thru again all ur arguments & i think there r some interesting points. 1st u need to understand that the mazhabs still very much alive. Only the imams hv passed away, but not the teachin (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Given the scenario, where I have learnt from the mouth of the late Ahmad Deedat himself, yes it is still applicable. However that does not m (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : U rejected the mazhabs because the imams had died but u responded differently when it applies to u in the event your teachers dies. Frankly (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : At what point did I ridicule the Mazhabs and the Imams? I have stressed that the Imams have long turned to dust. Is that ridicule to state t (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : Sdr. Azham yg budiman, saya ajukan persoalan ini utk anda. mampukah kita melakukan (bertindak) seperti hadith ini? Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24 : Narrated by Ibn 'Umar Allah's Apostle said: "I (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Mohd Hassan : Dear Shahnan and readers, I wish not to continue this debate as i think it is no longer beneficial. I've put forth my arguments and explanation on the 4 mazhabs, in which i have many times explained (...)
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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RMF Shahnan : I respect your decision to withdraw. There remains many unanswered issues that I brought up. Pity we can't move forward. Thank you.
 
2 years, 4 months ago
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Can addin-ul Islam (in the proper context as described in the Quran by the Messenger SAW) be practised today?
FOR
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Results of this Debate
Points: 2852
WINNER !!!
 
AGAINST
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Points: 2175
 
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